Charging for Epic Updates?

No doubt if you’re in the 70-79 channels you’ve seen people auctioning off raid slots to people for epic updates. These zones are from Runes of Kunark, and can run anywhere from 50-500p an update depending on what guild you’re going with and what server. While a lot of people debate the moral factor of whether or not it’s “right” to purchase your epic update, that’s not what I want to discuss.

What about the people who sell these updates to others?

My guild runs these RoK raids pretty much every weekend (minus VP which is done once a month), Thuuga, Pawbuster, Leviathan, Venril Sathir, etc. We do NOT charge pick ups for these raids, and some times we’re only adding 1 group of our own guild, and the rest are pick ups. Running a pick up raid is a stressful thing, but we do it, and we love watching people get updates who may not other wise have a chance to get them (be it because they belong to a smaller family guild, their schedule does not allow for it, etc).

Loot is handled on a NBG /random 1000 basis, and any masters that are not needed by those in the raid are taken by our raid organizer (on these weekend raids most of the time it happens to be the shadowknight running them that I talk about every so often) as a “thank you” for us hosting / organizing the raid for people (and then put into our guild bank). Not a lot of masters typically drop that go un-needed to begin with, but it happens from time to time.

This is a great way for us to get our updates for our own characters (since RoK raids are not exactly on the schedule any more) as well as help out the community on our server. It’s gotten to the point now that when the weekend rolls around we’ll get numerous tells randomly asking us if we’re running said zone and if so and so can they come along for an update.

The one weekend we do run VP we take names of people who need updates from specific kills, and we swap them in and out for those kills so that the greatest number of people can get their mythicals as possible. It’s something I would really love to see more guilds doing, instead of charging for updates.

There’s always a small debate as to whether or not non-raiders should be able to obtain these items (be it through paying or not) and honestly I don’t think owning a mythical (or not owning) makes a player good or bad. Yes, it will help their character but in the end it is really the players skill that gets taken into consideration. If you are good at your class, and you group a few times out there, you will be remembered for it. Likewise, if you are a shoddy player, you’ll also be remembered for it. Each class has a specific set of “things” they should be doing, and group mates notice this. Positioning as a tank, curing as a healer, using jesters and PoTM as well as CoC as a bard, all of these things make players good (or bad).

Are we in the wrong for allowing people this free method of obtaining their mythicals? They do have to do the work of gaining the fabled version first, and they also need to show up for the raids that are required, but aside from that it’s mostly the work of a TSO raid guild that pulls the others along. Is this wrong? We’ve even allowed pick ups to die and remain on the ground (dead) during raids for their update (this doesn’t work with conjurors who have to be alive, but a lot of classes can remain dead) if they were nervous that they were going to mess up some how (ie: Venril Sathir script pre-nerf). Are mythicals in the hands of non-raiders a bad thing?

Personally, I dislike the fact that there are pieces of gear in game that are quite common to obtain (these days) that have the ‘mythical’ flag. If you remember back at the beginning of EQ2 there wasn’t even a fabled flag. Prismatic 1.0 rewarded a legendary weapon for your hard effort (and trust me, at level 50 it was a LOT of effort). I think that the more common we make these items, the less special they are. I enjoyed mythical when they were exceptionally rare one time server rewards for unique encounters – and would have been satisfied with a fabled weapon (same stats, but minus the mythical tag). Of course that’s not the decision of the players but the designers, so the point is sort of moot. Pretty much anyone can get their mythical for the right price these days, and I don’t see a difference in giving them out for free so long as people want them.

14 Responses to Charging for Epic Updates?

  1. stargrace says:

    Did you not see the fact that this post is about my guild that does NOT charge for updates Ghimmhala? No one is going to do any flaming.

    You always have the choice of joining a raid guild yourself or making an alliance to get your updates, no one forces anyone to pay. There are always other options. Easy options of course not, but they are there.

    I don’t mind if people charge, it’s supply and demand. Strangers are taking the time to run instances that they have no personal gain in doing and that takes time and effort on their part. That’s their own personal decision though just as it is the decision of people who pay. Those who don’t have the money and don’t want to pay just won’t, and they’ll get their mythical (if they want it) through other means.

    I don’t believe it should be stopped, since no one is forcing anyone else to do anything, just don’t pay. Those who want to, will.

  2. Ghimmhala says:

    I think it is completely WRONG to charge some one in game money for a update. I do not think its right that I buy the game pay a monthly fee bust my hump to lvl (by my self) to 80 fight to keep some plat on me for repairs and have to turn around and get told I have to pay a absurde amount of in game money to get my Fable updates… Its wrong and it should be stopped.. Just IMO flame all you want IDK

  3. Kosovos says:

    I for one, hate people who charge for myth updates, it’s an exploit of people. You worked hard enough to get the first few updates, let alone the fabled, and next these high end raid guilds get the marvelous idea to get greedy and charge for a kill. It upsets me to no end, and Lowers my respect towards them dramatically. it’s just me, I guess, and I hate people who start selling kills and loot just so they can make an extra buck.

    My paladin got his Mythical with no charge, and I have tons of respect for the people who helped me get it, (Save for one guild that will remain nameless). I like the people who ask for someone to fill in this spot so they can kill the named. They got a lot of heart with no charge towards people who aren’t in a raiding guild.

    As for the question, “Are we in the wrong for allowing people this free method of obtaining their mythicals?”

    I have a lot of respect for people doing this, it shows that your a good player and are willing to help those who aren’t able to raid regularly and get the ability to raid VP and others. I wish there were more people like this.

  4. Stargrace says:

    In solo and small group situations, sure a mythical can make a “I’d normally fail” situation into a “now we always win” situation – but I’ve done palace just fine without mythical geared people, though Ykesha’s was another matter. I’m still a firm believer that a mythical does not make, or break, a player or their play styles, but simply adds to it. My tiny guild was taking down TSO stuff with only one of us having their mythical for the longest time, and even before that one person had their mythical we were doing fairly well for non-raid geared players. Since those instances are meant for full groups and not simply 2 people (or two people playing four characters) I can certainly see how it would help.

    In a full group of people who know what they’re doing and know their classes, have masters, and aa, and gear, a mythical does not make or break that group, imo. I had never even had a mythical until just last month and I’ve done quite a lot of content. Was I at my fullest potential, no, of course not, but not having a mythical never held me back.

  5. Blackluck says:

    A small point of contention: A mythical weapon can make a huge difference. To whit, after my zerker gained his myth we — my SO and I – could kill TSO named mobs where before we could not (we small group zones, i.e. 2 players, four characters.) It’s not that I suddenly got better at my class: With the myth my DPS increased probably by 2/3 on average. Ironically it was much easier getting the myth then the fabled version.

    As an aside, I’ve been working on my dirge mythical for quite a while now. Six Levi and three MMIS raids later I’m on my final mob. I joined a VP pickup raid Sunday and ended up spending five hours on one mob and we never did get to my target. All told I’ve spent somewhere around twenty hours on the thing (including form up times.) I am otherwise not a raider, aside from very, very occasional p/u SoH and Pawbuster raids (for masters that never drop alas.) After this experience this will likely be my last mythical ever.

  6. Argyuile - Unrest says:

    Mythical’s kind of hosed progression and being effecting in ToS requires a mythical for all but the easiest instances. I very much doubt a group without mythicals is going to clear Outer Stronghold or Palace unless they are some of the top players at their class. There is nothing in my mind that is moral or immoral about selling or “giving away” updates. If people want to “earn” them then they will, if people want to buy them then if they don’t get them from you they will get them through someone else. It would be easier to try and stop the earth spinning that to stop the law of supply and demand.

  7. tuvogg says:

    I am in a raid guild, also fighting Avatars, Anashti, Ykesha and now Munzok and constantly looking out for potential failure messages. Do I think that the Mythical spam should be stopped? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Not everyone getting a Myth is an alt of an alt. There are still some new players out there for whom getting a Myth and thereby spamming the server is the pinnacle of their EQ2 career. NO leave it exactly as it is.

  8. Ferrel says:

    The shortest of answers is this: If you have the capability to take pugs through these events and do so it is your choice. Nobody has any right to tell you it is “wrong.” Helping the community is never wrong in my book. Even when I was leading Iniquity (competitive raiding) we took pugs through old content. We did it for our own alts and we did it for good will.

  9. Magson says:

    No, you’re not wrong. Frankly, I wish you were on my server so I could get my updates. . . . Though tbh, I rarely get on during “prime time” on the weekends anyway. If I did, I’m sure I’d have already been on some PUR’s and at least gotten my coercer’s myth. Ah well.

  10. Grump says:

    Frankly, I don’t really care about selling loot rights… If you see my plat splits at the end of the month, you would know why! We don’t sell mythical updates because ROK is “so last year”, and no one likes that zone…

    My problem is the damn Mythical broadcast, over a year after they have been introduced. There is nothing worse than fighting real raid encounters, like Avatars, Ykesha or Anashti, where you have to watch out for special failure messages, then some alt of an alt’s mythical message comes across my screen.

    You can turn these messages off, but you also turn off potential failure messages.

  11. Wiqd says:

    Eh, this has been going on since EQ (when I first started into MMOs) and probably even before that as well. I won’t say whether it’s good or bad, but I just avoid people like that normally. It’s nice that people like you and your guild exist though because if not, I know A: quite a few people would be seriously disgruntled that they could never get the update since they can’t raid and B: that’s ALL that would be happening; people charging for updates is just another way to make money in the world and when you look at it that way, since it’s optional and people like you DO exist, it’s not really that horrible.

  12. It will be interesting to see what happens with Mythicals in the expansion. Last I heard, SOE was talking about making a new trinket-like slot for the things, but it was less clear whether they intended to allow some other item to go in that slot if you don’t have your mythical. If they aren’t careful, the continuing demand for mythical updates may be much higher than can be filled through philanthropy.

  13. Pete S says:

    “Are we in the wrong for allowing people this free method of obtaining their mythicals?”

    Of course not. I’m guessing that was a rhetorical question??

    I do kind of salute the entrepreneurial spirit that gave guild leaders the idea of selling slots in the first place. But at the same time there’s something about it that makes me uneasy. I guess because I wonder where the plat to pay for the slot comes from. Gold farmers?

    But heck, until Sony says it’s against the rules, it’s all fair in love and war!

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